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Demonology and magic are complex and fascinating subjects that have captured the human imagination for centuries. Many people are intrigued by the idea of summoning and communicating with demons, as well as harnessing the powers of magic to influence the world around them. In this guide, we will explore the basics of demonology and magic, providing an overview of the main principles and practices involved. Firstly, let's define demonology. It is the study and classification of demons, supernatural beings that are often associated with evil and mischief. Demons are believed to possess various powers and abilities, and summoning them requires specific rituals and incantations.

Nikosandros Lesser Deity of Dragonsfoot
Posts: 4807 Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2002 9:11 pm Location: Roma, Italy Contact:

As to different traditions using the staff, you couldn t cast the slot with your Divine Sorceror spells, so you couldn t use the spontaneous casting rules to reduce the cost of casting from the staff, but you will be able to use the prepared casting version once you have the Basic Spellcasting to spend the level 3 slot to overcharge the staff, potentially for a total of 7 charges at level 8. It is a strange and overpowered combination of a classical ground-targeted area spell but with the added mechanic that it automatically locks on the targeted enemy.

Demons are believed to possess various powers and abilities, and summoning them requires specific rituals and incantations. Demonology aims to understand these creatures and their characteristics, as well as the proper methods of summoning and controlling them. One of the key aspects of demonology is understanding the hierarchy of demons.

Dragonsfoot

Incendiary Cloud seems a bit underwhelming for an 8th-level spell. It does less total damage than a simple fireball (2 x caster's level over three rounds, versus 3.5 x caster's level all at once) It's quite useless in an open space--the enemy can simply move away before the cloud starts burning.

Its redeeming feature is that its area of effect is proportional to the fire source you start with, so you could fill an entire dungeon with flames if you built a big enough bonfire first. But you'd likely destroy a lot of valuables along with the intended targets--notably any scrolls and spellbooks, among the most precious of treasures to a magic-user.

What practical applications does this spell really lend itself to?

xyzchyx Deity of Dragonsfoot
Posts: 5122 Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:26 pm Location: Vancouver, Canada

Post by xyzchyx » Tue May 16, 2006 7:05 am

I never played an MU to a high enough level to be able to cast that spell, and looking it over I can't see why I would ever want to.

So. does anybody know if there some practical use for this spell that can't be better accomplished with lower level spells, and why is it so high level? (IMO, it should probably be about level 4 or 5).

garhkal Titan of Dragonsfoot
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Post by garhkal » Tue May 16, 2006 8:58 am

ExTSR Deity of Dragonsfoot
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Post by ExTSR » Tue May 16, 2006 1:24 pm

Duration, fast casting time, and multiple saves required.

However, it is rather underpowered; IMC I've raised the damage and the duration of same.

Nikosandros Lesser Deity of Dragonsfoot
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Post by Nikosandros » Tue May 16, 2006 2:38 pm

It's a very weak spell.

In general I believe that the problem is that many damage dealing spells fare poorly against fireball and lighting bolt. Cone of cold is 5th level and not really any better, incendiary cloud is 8th and clearly weaker.

xyzchyx Deity of Dragonsfoot
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Post by xyzchyx » Tue May 16, 2006 3:32 pm

Duration isn't a plus for this spell because the maximum total damage delivered over its entire duration is still less than the average amount of damage delivered by a spell like fireball. The only way in which fireball can do less damage is if you roll a LOT of ones when rolling damage for one.

Multiple saves isn't really a plus either, as the spell description specifies that only people that failed their save in the first round of damage need to reroll saves for the other rounds that the spell does damage.

The only thing that this does that fireball doesn't already do better is obscure vision for its duration, which while useful in and of itself, coupled with how much weaker this spell's damage is than fireball does not seem to make sense for an 8th level spell.

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Post by Istarlömé » Tue May 16, 2006 11:04 pm

Wasn't this a song by War?

Incendiary Cloud, what is it good for?

garhkal Titan of Dragonsfoot
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Post by garhkal » Wed May 17, 2006 9:15 am

Nikosandros wrote: It's a very weak spell.

In general I believe that the problem is that many damage dealing spells fare poorly against fireball and lighting bolt. Cone of cold is 5th level and not really any better, incendiary cloud is 8th and clearly weaker.

I disagree with COC being weaker. Yes, it may not have as high a damage potential per level (5 max versus 4) but it has no cap, and on average has a higher minimum.. 2 versus 1.

cwslyclgh Greater Deity of Dragonsfoot
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Post by cwslyclgh » Wed May 17, 2006 1:05 pm

cone of cold and fireball actually do the exact same average damage, 3.5 points per level (Niether spell has a damage cap in AD&D1e) Cone of cold's main advantage is a larger area of effect but that is somewhat mitigated by the fact that it has to start at the caster. (nothing about the spell says that it will expand to fill the volume of the area of effect like a fireball, or rebound off barriers like a lightning bolt, making it more useful in certain situations as well).

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Nikosandros Lesser Deity of Dragonsfoot
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Post by Nikosandros » Fri May 19, 2006 7:15 pm

garhkal wrote: I disagree with COC being weaker. Yes, it may not have as high a damage potential per level (5 max versus 4) but it has no cap, and on average has a higher minimum.. 2 versus 1.

Nikosandros Lesser Deity of Dragonsfoot
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Post by Nikosandros » Fri May 19, 2006 7:17 pm

cwslyclgh wrote: cone of cold and fireball actually do the exact same average damage, 3.5 points per level (Niether spell has a damage cap in AD&D1e) Cone of cold's main advantage is a larger area of effect but that is somewhat mitigated by the fact that it has to start at the caster. (nothing about the spell says that it will expand to fill the volume of the area of effect like a fireball, or rebound off barriers like a lightning bolt, making it more useful in certain situations as well).

Post by deimos3428 » Fri May 19, 2006 8:32 pm

cwslyclgh wrote: cone of cold and fireball actually do the exact same average damage, 3.5 points per level (Niether spell has a damage cap in AD&D1e) Cone of cold's main advantage is a larger area of effect but that is somewhat mitigated by the fact that it has to start at the caster. (nothing about the spell says that it will expand to fill the volume of the area of effect like a fireball, or rebound off barriers like a lightning bolt, making it more useful in certain situations as well).

IMC, there are two main factors in gauging the relative level of spells. The first, obviously, is Power. More Power = higher level. The second, often overlooked, is Control. Again, more Control = higher level. Furthermore, Power and Control are inversely proportionate: given two spells of the same level, if one has more Power, it has less Control.

Using that as my guideline, let me now analyze Fireball and Cone of Cold.

The Power of the two spells is roughly the same: same average damage, similar volume, and saving throws are permitted for half damage.

Fireball really doesn't have very much Control at all. You point, wait for the streak of flame to blossom into a fireball, and hope you measured distance well. It's rather basic, and extremely dangerous, really. You might argue it's too high level to begin with, but we're talking relative to Cone of Cold, here.

Cone of Cold has considerably more Control: shape and direction. (The caster gets to be a bit more careful of what he smites.) You're certainly in no personal danger as it's radiating away from you, with no chance of blowing back into your face, and no chance of it being obstructed/blowing up prematurely. (The PHB is a little unclear about what happens if the fireball's streak is prevented from reaching it's target before "blossoming into the fireball", IIRC. It either fizzles or blossoms early, but that's a debate for another day. The point being Cone of Cold doesn't have this problem; presumably because it's designed with more Control in mind.)

Ok, so they have about the same Power, but higher Control for Cone of Cold. Is it two levels worth of Control, you ask? I'll answer that with a hypothetical spell, "Frostball". Assume it works exactly as Fireball, but causes cold damage instead of fire damage.

Now, Fireball is virtually uncontrolled. Fire spreads anywhere and everywhere, causing flammable objects to ignite. So almost all the magic of the spell goes into Power. "Frostball", of course, does not ignite everything in its AoE and can be considered to be more controlled.*

Furthermore, unlike fire, "cold" is not an element. It is therefore more difficult to use. So "Frostball", by it's very nature, uses more of its spell energy in Control, leaving less available for Power. In order to maintain the same amount of Power, it would have to be a 4th level spell. Cone of cold is even further controlled than the hypothetical "Frostball" yet has the same damage.

5th level begins to make sense, at least relative to Fireball. Whew.

* This may sound counter-intuitive. Not igniting everything in an AoE is more controlled than doing so. Conversely, you could state that Fireball uses more Power because it does ignite everything in it's AoE, if that's easier to accept. Any magic not used for Control, is used for Power, and vice versa.

Nikosandros Lesser Deity of Dragonsfoot
Posts: 4807 Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2002 9:11 pm Location: Roma, Italy Contact:

It is believed that demons are organized in a complex structure, with powerful entities occupying higher ranks. These ranks determine the abilities and influence that a demon possesses, as well as the difficulty of summoning and controlling them. Learning about the hierarchy is crucial for anyone interested in practicing demonology and magic, as it provides insight into the various types and strengths of demons. Another significant aspect of demonology is the study of demon sigils and symbols. Sigils are graphic representations of demons, often created through a combination of letters, numbers, and other symbols. These sigils are believed to embody the essence and power of the corresponding demon, and can be used in rituals and spells to establish contact or gain control over the demon. Understanding and working with demon sigils is a fundamental skill for any aspiring demonologist. In addition to demonology, magic is an integral part of the world of demons. Magic is the practice of harnessing supernatural forces and energies to influence and shape the world around us. It is closely intertwined with demonology, as many magic rituals involve the summoning and negotiation with demons. Magic practitioners study various forms of magic, such as ceremonial magic, chaos magic, and witchcraft, to name a few. Ceremonial magic, also known as high magic, focuses on elaborate rituals and invocations to summon and communicate with supernatural entities. These rituals often involve complex symbolism, precise timing, and the use of specific objects and tools. Chaos magic, on the other hand, involves a more individualistic and experimental approach. Practitioners often create their own rituals and belief systems, drawing from various traditions and sources. Witchcraft, perhaps one of the most well-known forms of magic, embraces both practical magic and spirituality. Witches often work with herbs, crystals, and other natural elements to cast spells and perform rituals. They may also incorporate elements of divination and folk traditions into their practice. Overall, demonology and magic are vast and intricate subjects that require dedication and study. While they may be sources of great power and insight, it is important to approach these practices with respect and caution. Whether one is interested in demonology or magic, it is essential to thoroughly research and understand the principles and ethics involved..

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