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Was Christianity influenced by pagan religions, mystery cults, and/or pagan philosophers?
Jesus mythicists often accuse Christians of borrowing their religion, including Jesus, from pagans. I'm interested in exploring whether or not that's true, and if so, how much. My own position is Yes, No and Maybe. No, if we're talking copycat: yes if we're talking general influence possibly resulting from similar human responses to general condition and cultural diffusion; maybe, because the answer depends on circumstantial evidence and impressions.
- Pagan religion. any polytheistic religion. I'll include Zoroastrianism in the category for purposes of inquiry, although I regard it as basically dualistic;
- Mystery cult. Any of the Hellenistic pagan religions popular around the time of Jesus and centered around mysteries or secret knowledge; the term "cult" is not intended to be pejorative but does refer to a religious group considered exotic in the context of traditional beliefs of the larger society.
- Pagam philosphers. Secular sages in pagan societies who might or might not be personally religious but who seek wisdom or enlightenment outside the framework of organized religion. e.g., Pythagoras, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle.
abram
Joined Oct 2014 3,248 Posts | 391+ oklahoma Discussion StarterHow mythicists can go wrong:
A statement by comedian Bill Maher in his 2008 movie Religulous illustrates how Christ mythicists can go wrong:
Bill Maher: "But the Jesus story wasn’t original.
Christian man: How so?
Maher: Written i n 1289 BC, the Book of the Dead describes a God Horus . Horus is the son of th he god Osiris, born to a virgin mother. He was baptized in a river by Anup the Baptizer who was later beheaded. Like Jesus, Horus was tempted while alone in the desert, healed the sick, the blind, cast out demons, and walked on water. He raised Asar from the dead. “Asar” translates to “Lazarus.” Oh, yeah, he also had twelve disciples. Yes, Horus was crucified first, and after three days, two women announced Horus, the savior of humanity, had been resurrected." Maher may have felt good about himself, putting the Christian rube in his place. But to anyone informed about Egyptian myth, he looks foolish for committing one gaffe after another. The Book of the Dead, which Maher presents as a kind of Egyptian bible, is actually the modern term for a couple hundred funerary scrolls from mummies tombs, caskets, wrappings and statues, to guide the deceased on the journey to the afterlife and going by the general name Book of Coming Forth by Day . And they don't exactly say what Maher says they say. For one thing, there was no Anup the Baptizer. The closest to that name in Egyptian mythology was Anubis, a god who was part man, part canine. He didn't lose his head or die at all. And he didn't exactly baptize anybody. He was involved in the mummification process, where the corpse was washed with palm oil prior to embalming. This is a bit far removed from what Christians think of as baptism as performed by John the Baptist--the purpose of which is to initiate living people into a new life.
Was Horus born of a virgin? That's a stretch. He certainly had a miraculous birth, being conceived while his father was still a corpse. His mother used a prosthetic penis or"dildo"--again miraculous, but not what we usually think of as "virgin"' i.e., conception without penetration. I know--picky, picky. Like Jesus, Horus was tempted. Well, not quite like Jesus. I hesitate to go into the lurid details, which I once did once to my Sunday school class to their shock and horror. Discretion being the better part of valor, suffice it to say that the story involves attempted homosexual rape and incest, ending when the gods call upon Horus' semen to identify itself, which it did by appearing as a solar disc, the symbol of Horus, in the middle of funny uncle Seth's forehead. Again, there was tempting and resisting going on, but the devil is in the details. For the unexpurgated version, see "The Contendings of Horus and Seth" Chester Beatty Papyrus 1 The Contendings of Horus and Set As for the miracles performed by Horus, no record of any of those. Asar is another name for Horus' father, Osiris, no relation to Lazarus, and it was his mother, not Horus, who raised him. Horus was never "crucified"--that being a specific form of execution not in vogue in Egypt. In fact he never died. It was his father who did that. nor was he resurrected or resuscitated. Dad did that too. No annunciation by the women. No proclamation that Horus "saved" anybody, whatever that might mean. What we have here in a few short sentences is an illustration of the pitfalls of reckless mythicism. Of course, Maher can get away with it because most folks can't spot the errors, or have the attitude "Whatever". We, as historians, should follow a higher standard.
Last edited: Feb 15, 2022 Reactions: Multicolored LemurOldandeasilycofused
Joined Dec 2021 7,205 Posts | 3,494+ AustraliaHow mythicists can go wrong:
A statement by comedian Bill Maher in his 2008 movie Religulous illustrates how Christ mythicists can go wrong:
Bill Maher: "But the Jesus story wasn’t original.
Christian man: How so?
Maher: Written i n 1289 BC, the Book of the Dead describes a God Horus . Horus is the son of th he god Osiris, born to a virgin mother. He was baptized in a river by Anup the Baptizer who was later beheaded. Like Jesus, Horus was tempted while alone in the desert, healed the sick, the blind, cast out demons, and walked on water. He raised Asar from the dead. “Asar” translates to “Lazarus.” Oh, yeah, he also had twelve disciples. Yes, Horus was crucified first, and after three days, two women announced Horus, the savior of humanity, had been resurrected." Maher may have felt good about himself, putting the Christian rube in his place. But to anyone informed about Egyptian myth, he looks foolish for committing one gaffe after another. The Book of the Dead, which Maher presents as a kind of Egyptian bible, is actually the modern term for a couple hundred funerary scrolls from mummies tombs, caskets, wrappings and statues, to guide the deceased on the journey to the afterlife and going by the general name Book of Coming Forth by Day . And they don't exactly say what Maher says they say. For one thing, there was no Anup the Baptizer. The closest to that name in Egyptian mythology was Anubis, a god who was part man, part canine. He didn't lose his head or die at all. And he didn't exactly baptize anybody. He was involved in the mummification process, where the corpse was washed with palm oil prior to embalming. This is a bit far removed from what Christians think of as baptism as performed by John the Baptist--the purpose of which is to initiate living people into a new life.
Was Horus born of a virgin? That's a stretch. He certainly had a miraculous birth, being conceived while his father was still a corpse. His mother used a prosthetic penis or"dildo"--again miraculous, but not what we usually think of as "virgin"' i.e., conception without penetration. I know--picky, picky. Like Jesus, Horus was tempted. Well, not quite like Jesus. I hesitate to go into the lurid details, which I once did once to my Sunday school class to their shock and horror. Discretion being the better part of valor, suffice it to say that the story involves attempted homosexual rape and incest, ending when the gods call upon Horus' semen to identify itself, which it did by appearing as a solar disc, the symbol of Horus, in the middle of funny uncle Seth's forehead. Again, there was tempting and resisting going on, but the devil is in the details. For the unexpurgated version, see "The Contendings of Horus and Seth" Chester Beatty Papyrus 1 The Contendings of Horus and Set As for the miracles performed by Horus, no record of any of those. Asar is another name for Horus' father, Osiris, no relation to Lazarus, and it was his mother, not Horus, who raised him. Horus was never "crucified"--that being a specific form of execution not in vogue in Egypt. In fact he never died. It was his father who did that. nor was he resurrected or resuscitated. Dad did that too. No annunciation by the women. No proclamation that Horus "saved" anybody, whatever that might mean. What we have here in a few short sentences is an illustration of the pitfalls of reckless mythicism. Of course, Maher can get away with it because most folks can't spot the errors, or have the attitude "Whatever". We, as historians, should follow a higher standard.
Are you seriously citing Bill Maher as a credible source? Good Grief man, the dill seems to be citing the unintentionally hilarious " Zeitgeist "
Trying to make a causal connection between the Virgin birth of Jesus and the Isis-Osiris-Seth- Horus myth is a bit beyond the pale. To be fair, even quite educated and astute scholars such as Richard Collier have problems distinguishing between correlation and causation.
With respect, my experience of watching Bill Maher is that he is a popular talking head , with opinions which don't always seem to be filtered through his brain.
On this occasion I'm on your side.
Was Horus born of a virgin? That's a stretch. He certainly had a miraculous birth, being conceived while his father was still a corpse. His mother used a prosthetic penis or"dildo"--again miraculous, but not what we usually think of as "virgin"' i.e., conception without penetration. I know--picky, picky. Like Jesus, Horus was tempted. Well, not quite like Jesus. I hesitate to go into the lurid details, which I once did once to my Sunday school class to their shock and horror. Discretion being the better part of valor, suffice it to say that the story involves attempted homosexual rape and incest, ending when the gods call upon Horus' semen to identify itself, which it did by appearing as a solar disc, the symbol of Horus, in the middle of funny uncle Seth's forehead. Again, there was tempting and resisting going on, but the devil is in the details. For the unexpurgated version, see "The Contendings of Horus and Seth" Chester Beatty Papyrus 1 The Contendings of Horus and Set As for the miracles performed by Horus, no record of any of those. Asar is another name for Horus' father, Osiris, no relation to Lazarus, and it was his mother, not Horus, who raised him. Horus was never "crucified"--that being a specific form of execution not in vogue in Egypt. In fact he never died. It was his father who did that. nor was he resurrected or resuscitated. Dad did that too. No annunciation by the women. No proclamation that Horus "saved" anybody, whatever that might mean. What we have here in a few short sentences is an illustration of the pitfalls of reckless mythicism. Of course, Maher can get away with it because most folks can't spot the errors, or have the attitude "Whatever". We, as historians, should follow a higher standard.
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Reviews for "Red Magic 7s Pro: Embrace the Power with its Jaw-Dropping Specifications"
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